Forum

performance measure...
 
Notifications
Clear all

performance measurements TC

23 Posts
11 Users
7 Likes
15.5 K Views
escubic
Posts: 72
Topic starter
(@escubic)
Estimable Member
Joined: 5 years ago

Here are my preliminary results of the mechanical performance of my Super Soco TC in hilly terrain.

22 Replies
escubic
Posts: 72
Topic starter
(@escubic)
Estimable Member
Joined: 5 years ago

(values taken at maximum speed for each slope)

(measured values: Vmax, slope, mass, wheel radius, speed meter offset)

(fitted values: air drag coefficient, wheel drag coefficient)

(calculated values: torque, motor power, air and wheel drag power)

Reply
Super Honda
Posts: 144
(@super-honda)
Estimable Member
Joined: 6 years ago

Interesting with the sudden fall in engine power.

But the engine should be able to rely on its high torque?

That the electric motor has maximum torque from the start (just like a steam engine), you was learned in school.

However, electric motors are non-linear over their speed range, for example, the inductance means that you do not have a linear rotation from 0 to maximum speed, but only within a certain speed range you can count on constant torque.

Reply
1 Reply
escubic
(@escubic)
Joined: 5 years ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 72

the surprise in the plots is that the maximum torque (~110-115 Nm) only exists at very low speeds (0~10 km/h). At 19 km/h which is for a motorbike a slow speed the torque has already dropped to 90 Nm. It is normal that at slow speeds the Power P is proportional to the speed P ~ v. Usually the maximum power should be reached at the speed where the torque starts dropping but in case of the Super Soco  there is the speed interval between 10 ~ 30 km/h where the torque is already dropping while the power is still increasing which I do not understand.

the power P increases with speed v in a linear fashion because P = F * v = Force * velocity [in the linear case] or P = T * ω = torque * angular speed [in the rotational case]. With constant F or T you get an increasing P with increasing v or ω

Reply
Posts: 9
(@cabicular)
Active Member
Joined: 5 years ago

I have to admit the performance is one of the most disappointing bits of TC ownership

a slight headwind and a gradient and you have a queue of traffic behind you.

given the power and torque available it seems mad that they won’t allow you to trade range for performance when you need to

Reply
5 Replies
Oscar
Admin
(@oscar)
Joined: 6 years ago

Reputable Member
Posts: 280

I think @Cabicular is right, it's very disappointing to see that you can't win of a petrol scooter at the traffic lights. Even if you have that much power and torque...

Reply
(@tcmaximum)
Joined: 5 years ago

Eminent Member
Posts: 26

Are you guys talking about a limited soco? There's no way that I'm experiencing the same vehicle as you guys right now. The top speed I can reach with me on the bike at full throttle is 70km/h. The only thing faster than me taking off from an intersection is a petrol bike after XXX meters or so. 

If you're complaining about the performance drop off using a software limit then...I don't know what the point of the post was. Of course there's a drop in power when you only allow the motor a percentage of the actual motor controller performance. 

The main downside I've found is that the speedometer is a bit weird. Displayed speed is faster than my actual speed. I.E. If I max at 70 the speedometer says 75. It also has little jumps occasionally I've noticed. 

Unless you for some reason can't get a license or it's illegal, there's no reason why you shouldn't unlock it and drive it like it was intended. 

Reply
escubic
(@escubic)
Joined: 5 years ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 72

The measurements are for an unrestricted TC. The velocity is measured with GPS. The speedometer is 14% too fast with respect to the actual speed. Speedo 80 = GPS 70 km/h. Speedo 40 = GPS 35 km/h.

My TC firmware is the old version (brakes disconnect motor). Total vehicle mass 195 kg, fitted drag values:

air+wheel drag power (W) = 29 W * v / (m/s) + 0.22 W * v³ / (m/s)³ 

German: Max. Drehmoment = max. torque
Max. Leistung = max. power
Luftwiderstand = Air drag
Max. Steigung = max. inclination

Reply
Oscar
Admin
(@oscar)
Joined: 6 years ago

Reputable Member
Posts: 280
Posted by: TCMaximum

Are you guys talking about a limited soco? There's no way that I'm experiencing the same vehicle as you guys right now. The top speed I can reach with me on the bike at full throttle is 70km/h. The only thing faster than me taking off from an intersection is a petrol bike after XXX meters or so. 

If you're complaining about the performance drop off using a software limit then...I don't know what the point of the post was. Of course there's a drop in power when you only allow the motor a percentage of the actual motor controller performance. 

The main downside I've found is that the speedometer is a bit weird. Displayed speed is faster than my actual speed. I.E. If I max at 70 the speedometer says 75. It also has little jumps occasionally I've noticed. 

Unless you for some reason can't get a license or it's illegal, there's no reason why you shouldn't unlock it and drive it like it was intended. 

My experience was for the TS, so maybe that's the performance thing.

Reply
(@cabicular)
Joined: 5 years ago

Active Member
Posts: 9

Of course we are talking about the unrestricted bike.

40mph is barely achievable on a flat with no headwind. Add even a slight incline and forget it

at full throttle I’m holding up traffic.

also unless I anticipate the lights I’m struggling not to hold up traffic. 

are you telling me you don’t find the performance lacklustre?

Reply
escubic
Posts: 72
Topic starter
(@escubic)
Estimable Member
Joined: 5 years ago

the TC has a torque of 115 Nm below 10 km/h. Taken the wheel radius 0.283m this means 115 Nm / 0.283m = 406 N acceleration punch, the equivalent force of 41 kg. With 2 batteries and a 92 kg driver, 195 kg total vehicle mass you have an acceleration of 406 N / 195 kg = 2.08 m/s², that is 0.21 g. You will gain every traffic lights acceleration on the first meters with the TC, in 1.3 seconds you drive 10 km/h. However, above 10 km/h it loses quickly its torque.

Reply
Page 1 / 2