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cleanfuture
Posts: 16
(@cleanfuture)
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Joined: 6 months ago

Hi, am the owner of a Super Soco and while I think the bike is fantastic in many respacts, the controller is to limited and not user adjustable. There is no regenerative braking either. This is why I have started to develop a custom ECU replacement kit which I am promoting on Kickstarter here: http://kck.st/2Vnj8vE I need to have the controller calibrated for the Super Soco motor at the Factory in China, requiring to send them the back wheel. After that, I need to order a minimum of 50 controllers to justify a custom version of their controller. Check it out, it will be cool. Comments and questions welcome.

41 Replies
wagner
Posts: 41
(@wagner)
Eminent Member
Joined: 7 months ago

interesting idea friend, altho I don´t quite understand why you want to build a custom controller if you could just put a Kelly/Sabvoton or even VESC ECU in the Soco.
Sure, you wont have communication between battery and BMS but will your ECU have these features?

And if you´d knew how the controller "talks", it would probably by easier to rewrite the existing and original ECU (after all, it´s a Lingbo Controller and we have the software for that).

How for are you in terms of recunstructing SuperSoco´s communication between BMS and controller? 🙂

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2 Replies
cleanfuture
(@cleanfuture)
Joined: 6 months ago

Active Member
Posts: 16

@wagnerYes, you are right, there are other controllers on the market that work, but do they neatly replace the original controller, fitting in the same space? Do they come with detailed instructions specific to Super Soco conversion which anyone can follow? Do they come with 2 sets of industrial standard inline connectors with screw terminals, eliminating the need for special tools? This is a complete conversion kit, not just a controller. 

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cleanfuture
(@cleanfuture)
Joined: 6 months ago

Active Member
Posts: 16

@wagnerThe BMS does not talk to the controller at all, only to the ECU in the display. Only the 2 battery leads go to the controller. Even with the controller unplugged, charge level readout will still work.

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Nardcox
Posts: 37
(@nardcox)
Eminent Member
Joined: 7 months ago

If your serious about tweaking than you will probably replace the battery as well and than the 'benefit' of an open Controller vanishes. Also you would need to bypass the BMS because it's also capped I believe.

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8 Replies
wagner
(@wagner)
Joined: 7 months ago

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Posts: 41

@nardcoxyeah, the BMS is capped at ~40A. The only thing you might want to build your custom soco around the original BMS is the communication with the display through rs485. But if you decode that, a completely new system will be much easier..and cheaper if you look at the ~1000€ you have to spend at this kickstarter campaign in order to get a 50A controller lol

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cleanfuture
(@cleanfuture)
Joined: 6 months ago

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Posts: 16

@wagnerHi, It is not a 1000Euro that I am asking, it is $960 Australian which is about 575Euro. The Super Soco TC is maxed @ 40 Amps, but the TS only 35 Amps. The motor is capable of a lot more, but the wiring is not. I am not advocating to run the bike on the full 50A continuous rating the controller is capable off but I think being able to set functions such as rate of acceleration, max and continuous current and regen braking is very useful. Currently I find it frustrating that those features are not part of the bike.

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wagner
(@wagner)
Joined: 7 months ago

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Posts: 41

@cleanfuture still pretty much for a 50A controller.
Don´t you know about the "dual controller setup"? 
You get these exact features, can easily reverse this mod and pay less than 250€ for something like a Kelly/Sabvoton ECU

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cleanfuture
(@cleanfuture)
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Posts: 16

@wagner My setup is also easily reversible, it comes with 2 sets of matching in line connectors. Just unscrew one controller, unplug it, plug in the other one and you are up and running. My conversion is higher value because it is a kit with instructions, not just a generic controller.

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wagner
(@wagner)
Joined: 7 months ago

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Posts: 41

@cleanfuture sounds promising for sure! 
The one thing I don´t get is: why a new controller?
If you want to put in the time and effort, just figure out a way on how to adjust the settings on the original one.

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cleanfuture
(@cleanfuture)
Joined: 6 months ago

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Posts: 16

@wagner

20200429 103401
20200429 103410

The original ECU is inedequate and inefficient. It does not do the rest of the bike justice. It has 12 SCRs as opposed to 18 on my controller which also has copper bus bars as current collectors. Even if I had the source code and programmer for the Super Soco controller, I would not bother with it.

20200429 103406

 

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Nardcox
(@nardcox)
Joined: 7 months ago

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Posts: 37

@cleanfuture, sounds very cool. One of my biggest complaints is the fact that the throttle is speed based, not torque based. Torque based would give a much better and nicer feel to the throttle input. Is this something you will also adjust?

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cleanfuture
(@cleanfuture)
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Posts: 16

@nardcoxI have installed a second 1.8kWh battery, but it only increases the range, but not the performance. The max draw from the system is limited by the in line circuit breaker (TS 35A, TC40A), not by the BMS. But with a second battery, you can draw higher current without loosing battery efficiency (System C rating). Without being able to tweak the controller and putting in a bigger circuit breaker, this is not possible.

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cleanfuture
Posts: 16
(@cleanfuture)
Active Member
Joined: 6 months ago

@wagner

20200429 103401
20200429 103410

The original ECU is inedequate and inefficient. It does not do the rest of the bike justice. It has 12 SCRs as opposed to 18 on my controller which also has copper bus bars as current collectors. Even if I had the source code and programmer for the Super Soco controller, I would not bother with it.

20200429 103406

 

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2 Replies
wagner
(@wagner)
Joined: 7 months ago

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Posts: 41

@cleanfuture looks cool 🙂

The original ECU has RS485 communication (I assume with the BMS), have you managed to replicate this too?

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NenaGirl
(@nenagirl)
Joined: 9 months ago

Trusted Member
Posts: 53

@cleanfuture what is de type number of the scr? Is is possible to read them on the soco ecu? I have two tc’s and drove them the same distance and same speed and they both have the same limit. It should be possible to change some of the parts to get a few kmh faster!

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dgorst
Posts: 2
(@dgorst)
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Joined: 5 months ago

Just out interest, because it doesn't look relevant to that model, what's your opinion on the controllers in the Max?

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14 Replies
cleanfuture
(@cleanfuture)
Joined: 6 months ago

Active Member
Posts: 16

@dgorstI have not had a look at the Max yet. It has only recently been introduced in Australia.  I will check one out at the dealer next week.

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DocWeyr
(@docweyr)
Joined: 1 year ago

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Posts: 101

@cleanfuture - please do. I am thinking if any spare power is hidden in it.

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wagner
(@wagner)
Joined: 7 months ago

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Posts: 41

@docweyr I just took a sneak peek in my dealer´s TC Max 😀
The Max controller is a VEC300 from goldenmotors, which is a 72V 300A Lingbo Controller. So this thing would be capable of 20kW peak.
Iam currently trying to mod my VEC300 ecu but unfortunately I haven´t been successful yet..

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cleanfuture
(@cleanfuture)
Joined: 6 months ago

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Posts: 16

@wagnerYou are in luck then. Goldenmotor https://www.goldenmotor.com/ are selling a programming kit with software (PIC400) for $60US. If you get that, you can set any parameter yourself.

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wagner
(@wagner)
Joined: 7 months ago

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Posts: 41

@cleanfuture I thought of that but Iam not certain that spending 60$ will solve my problem. Because SuperSoco probably has their own deal with Lingbo MC, the original manufacturer of these controllers. goldenmotors just rebranded these. I got a serial USB-TTL-converter but no luck so far..

Aaand you still didn´t answer me if you got the data communication of the Soco cracked :p

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DocWeyr
(@docweyr)
Joined: 1 year ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 101

@wagner - so it sounds like vec300 could provide more power if software updated.

So second question is natural. Could you also look at engine of TCmax? Could it safely use higher power if it is possible to tune up VEC300 controller?

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wagner
(@wagner)
Joined: 7 months ago

Eminent Member
Posts: 41

@docweyr I think the engine could run safely 10kW cont.
The cables are also thick enough to handle the current.

Thing is: I don´t know how to program the controller right now..
goldenmotors sells a programming cable for their vec300 but Iam unsure whether this one works at the original lingbo controller and am to afraid to spend ~100€ (for a freakin cable) to try..^^

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DocWeyr
(@docweyr)
Joined: 1 year ago

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Posts: 101

@wagner there is schema of 4 working pins (1,3,5,7 - low row) for VEC300 - have you checked this?

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wagner
(@wagner)
Joined: 7 months ago

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Posts: 41

@docweyr

sure did, no luck so far..

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DocWeyr
(@docweyr)
Joined: 1 year ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 101

@wagner - I will check if we have sth like this stored in "all may be needed" boxes in office. ;-] Or we can make one. But sometimes this is not only wires.

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cleanfuture
(@cleanfuture)
Joined: 6 months ago

Active Member
Posts: 16

@docweyrThe motor itself should be good for 10kW, as you say, but the wiring is not. 10kW means 150A! The wiring as it is is good for 40, maybe 50A tops. The Lingbo controller maxes out at 35A. Some people on the forum have also reported fused connector pins due to high current on the rectangular battery connector. To avoid this, I have soldered 100A cables directly to the internal bus bar of the battery. They are connected to the second pack in parallel and directly to the controller. All the plug has to do is maintain connection to the instrument ECU. Interesting enough, if I disconnect the square plug, the bike still starts up and runs but does no longer show the charge state.

IMG 20200508 135020

 

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DocWeyr
(@docweyr)
Joined: 1 year ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 101

@cleanfuture - so you also replaced or upgraded firmware of your controller in TCmax? So far you wrote about TC only.

I cannot get how exchange cables may increase power? Can you write a bit more?

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cleanfuture
(@cleanfuture)
Joined: 6 months ago

Active Member
Posts: 16

@docweyrI was talking about the TC, not the TC max. I miss understood. Having said that, I do have a VEC300 controller from Golden Motor with programming cable. Are you saying that the VEC300 on the TC max cannot be programmed with the standard cable? Is the software locked?

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wagner
(@wagner)
Joined: 7 months ago

Eminent Member
Posts: 41

@cleanfuture 
Can you pls pls send me the cable? 😀
I can try it out on my dealers TC Max and I have another bike which has a VEC300-like controller.
I tried it with a usb-ttl- converter but it didn´t work..

Borrowing the cable would be so nice 🙂
I live in Germany/EU.

Here some pics of the TC Max controller:

20200508 132856
20200508 132523
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